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IF YOU READ OR LISTEN TO NOTHING ELSE, LISTEN TO THIS SHORT AUDIO CLIP FROM MARK IN MESA, AZ, A MORMON CALLER TO A TALK SHOW. CONTRARY TO GLENN BECK, THIS MORMON KNOWS HIS HISTORY. HE IS DISGUSTED THAT MITT ROMNEY IS "PANDERING" TO CHRISTIANS. (RIGHTLY SAYS MORMONS DO NOT BELIEVE "EVERY WORD" OF THE BIBLE, CONTRARY TO MITT ROMNEY'S ASSERTION THAT HE DOES.) AND THAT MORMONISM IS PROUDLY NOT PART OF CHISTIANITY! (Click on speaker icon.)

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A confluence of events

When things come in three's, I start to wonder if God isn't trying to tell me something. First came the audio clip of the honest Mormon, above, from early December acknowledging Mormons aren't Christian.

Then, in early January, I tripped across an article by Glenn Beck when he made Drudge, complaining about his "botched" surgery.

I didn't watch his YouTube teaser nor did I watch his return to his show. Curious, I surfed the web to find out what surgery he had. I ended up at his website where I found the basis for this post. (I never did find out what surgery he had—back surgery I heard on the web— but he doesn't say in his follow on story either.)

And then third, on this Monday's Hugh Hewitt show, Politio reporter Mike Allen lectured us on what we should believe and, in passing, says Mitt Romney is Christian.  (Listen for yourself. Click on speaker.)

To which Mr. Hewitt, who claims to be an Evangelical Christian and who is an elder in his church, quickly responded with sound doctrine. "No he isn't. He doesn't believe in the Jesus of the Bible!" NOT!

Adolph Hitler was a Christian too

I heard a program the other day rehearsing why the Christian church in Nazi Germany didn't cry out about Adolph Hitler. Hitler claimed to a Christian. I remember watching a speech of his on PBS years ago, with subtitles. I remember being surprised that he invoked God in his speeches. (I think he called on the name of Jesus too.)

I'm afraid we have the same problem in the church today that the Germans had then. No discernment. (Which may be indicative of a bigger problem. Unbelief or carnality.  In which case, we get what we deserve.) Remember, Jesus said to test those who claim to be apostles, but are not.

I've written before that "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it." A Townhall blogger echoes same. And so it is with "Mormons are christians."

Speaking of lies, Hugh Hewitt assured us in his book and on the air that this wouldn't happen. That Mitt Romney's bid for Presidency would not embolden Mormons and make Mormonism seem more mainstream. But, as I predicted, it already has. Glenn Beck is doing it again.

Pick a jesus - any jesus.

The setting for Mr. Beck's article, Glenn not a Christian, is just before Mitt Romney's "Faith Speech." As a somewhat unabashed Mormon (albeit, a not very knowledgeable one), Mr. Beck was solicited to be a guest on Good Mourning America. (misspelling intended.)

Opposite Mr. Beck was a Christian expert on Mormonism. (But of course, anyone who says Mormonism is not Christian is automatically an "expert critic," and "anti-Mormon bigot" and cannot be telling the truth. That's what Mormons say—at so-called Article 6 blog. Typical cult mentality.) The first question was, "Are Mormons Christians?"

[BTW, the correct answer is: Some may be. If so, they won't stay in Mormonism very long. But MORMONISM is NOT Christian. There's a difference.]

I'm surprised he didn't say, like one of the Osmond's on Larry King, "Our church has the name of Christ in it." As if that makes it true.

Jehovah Witnesses are Christian?

Some JW's came to the door the other day. They believe in Jesus. Are they Christians?

No. They told me they don't believe Jesus was God. Rather, their jesus is Michael the Archangel. This is contrary to the very clear teaching in the Bible. (But not THEIR Bible. Like Mormons, the JW's have their own translation of the Bible which conveniently validates their peculiar doctrines. For JW's, it's The New World Translation. For Mormons, it's the Joseph Smith Translation.)


Therefore, either JW's are the true christians or we are. (Or neither of us are.) But it can't be both, because Jesus was either God or He wasn't.

Muslims are Christians?

Now, a Muslim man is upset with Mel Gibson's The Passion of the Christ. He's making his own movie to proclaim the Islamic jesus.

You see, Muslims believe in Jesus. They believe he was a prophet. So are they Chrisitans?

No. Muslims don't believe Jesus is God, nor do they believe He was crucified on the cross and He certainly didn't die for the sins of the whole world, as it says in the Bible.


Fortunately, Muslims don't claim to be Christians, so there's no counterfeiting here.

They are not (Revelation 3:9)

Even though he didn't challenge Mike Allen's assertion that Mitt Romney is Christian, Mr. Hewitt has summed the problem. Speaking of Liberals (I think it was) he said,

You can call yourself a polka-dot. But that doesn't make you a polka-dot.

(March 23, 2007. 1st hour?)

So you can call yourself a Christian. Or you can have the name "Jesus Christ" in your church. But that doesn't make you—or it—a Christian.

But I digress

Now, getting back to Glenn Beck. The quote (to follow shortly) from Mr. Beck is instructive into the mind of Mormons. Since Mormonism is a cult, they all basically think the same. Once you've talked to one Mormon, you've talked to them all. You'll see that Mr. Beck, as all Mormons, is hung up on, among other things, the concept of the Trinity. You know, that God exists as three persons. NOT "personages" as Mormons say. Three persons. I wish I could find it, but there's a short clip where Hugh Hewitt quickly hangs up on a Mormon caller, calling in to say how stupid Christians are to believe "three gods in one." (Which isn't what we believe, but anyway....)

Lose your mind? Or you soul.

We have a cutesy saying in Christianity: Try to understand the Trinity and you'll lose your mind. But if you deny the Trinity, you'll lose your soul.

Look, I don't claim to understand the concept of the Trinity. Frankly, it's incomprehensible. But then, so is the fact that God says He is infinite.  I can't comprehend infinity. So I should say that can't be? Frankly, there are a lot of things in this world I don't understand. Mitosis, for example. How do the strands "know" to do that? How can a human being come from just a bunch of seemingly inanimate protein chains? Do I then say since I don't understand it, it can't be true?

God says He's always existed. (That is, God did not have a father who had a father, who had a father, ad infinitum. Which is what Mormonism teaches. Google for "Eternal Progression.")

I don't understand the virgin birth either. How a woman could become pregnant without being impregnated. (Whereas Mormonism teaches that their god came to earth and had sex with Mary.)

But here's the really big miracle. I don't understand the resurrection of a man from the dead. But as far as I can tell, the historical evidence points to it being true. No one has found a body. Nor has anyone claimed to. (The Jews could have put this whole Jesus thing to bed if they claimed to have his body. But they never made that claim. Instead they said the Apostles stole it. Yeah, right. Try getting past a Roman guard. Those guys were serious and were licensed to kill. It would be like trying to get past a SWAT team.)

Look, I didn't make up the concept of the Trinity. In fact, if I were out to deceive Mormons, I would tell it their way, that there are three separate gods. Why would I try to deceive them with something incomprehensible like "God exists as Three Persons?"

But I read about it in the Bible. God can be who He wants to be. Who am I to tell Him that He can't have always existed simply because I can't understand how that can be. In my mind, finite creature that I am, everything has a beginning and an end. But I've come to trust what He's said about things I know about, so when He tells me about Himself, I have to take him at His word. (This isn't on-line dating we're talking about here, where people lie about who they are.) He says He's my Creator and that He is infinite. It would be arrogant for the pot to say to the potter "You must be made of clay because I'm made of clay." But that's what Mormons do. They have reduced their god to a puny little man because that's what we are.

Incomprehensible though it is, we even sing about the Trinity in the hymn, "Holy, Holy, Holy" which comes from the Bible. A trinity of praise to the Triune God?

So know that you know what Christians believe about the Triune God, let's see what Mr. Beck believes.

...and by your words you will be condemned. (Matthew 12:37)

Okay, here's what Mr. Beck says, with editorial comment by me. Picking up his story...

The next question, with about 40 seconds to go, was about the deep doctrinal issues of Mormonism, and I've got to tell you something. I want you to put yourself in my shoes. Mormons, the doctrine is different. [So then, why are Mormons so insistent they are Christians if their doctrine is different from historical Christianity? It's because they believe what Joseph Smith told them. That ALL the other churches are wrong and that they, the Mormon church, is the ONE true church. (Sorry Catholics. You thought you were the ones.)]

However, that's what attracted me to it. For me some of the things in traditional doctrine just doesn't work, but it works for millions of other people and that's great. [In other words, Mr. Beck refuses to believe what God says about Himself. Wow. There's not much hope for him. He is no longer ignorant.] Happens to work for millions of Mormons the other way. [Doesn't make it right. There are Billions of Muslims—with a "B." I've heard there are now 2 Billion - a third of the world's population. If you're going to go by numbers, then become a Muslim. They're the fastest growing religion. So they must be true.] That's great. [No, it's not great. It's sad. This is 60's thinking: "Live and let live." But there is a hell. It's real and forever. It's not great, nor is it loving to not warn others who are seeking that  they're on the wide road that leads to destruction.] You know, I'm not going to preach to you, you don't have to preach to me. [I do have to preach to you if I love you and warn you you're wrong. Don't you spank your kids? Does that mean you don't love them? No, it means you DO love them.] We'll pray for each other and we'll see each other on the other side hopefully. [No we won't. Hope all you want. Doesn't make it true.]

Now, imagine, put yourself in this position. [He begins a straw man argument here. What's the point? That because you have a different belief, you can't explain why you believe it?] Let's say you are in Saudi Arabia where nobody's ever heard of the trinity. [See, there's that word that sticks in the craw of Mormons.] You're a Catholic. Nobody's ever heard of the trinity. What, the trinity? What, it's three in one, they're everywhere and nowhere. Jesus is on the cross but he's really God. So God has died but yet he didn't die and how does this -- imagine you've never heard this before. [i.e. He's saying it's stupid. Mr. Beck's god is too small. My God is infinite. It's no problem for Him to be two places at once. In fact, he fills the whole Universe.] So you've never heard any kind of explanation. So it works. You know what I mean? You've never heard anybody say, no, no, no, wait, wait, wait, you've got to slow down. She asked me two questions about deep doctrine issues and I had in my ear, 40 seconds. Oh, well, hang on. I've got 40 seconds. Let me explain this to you. You can't explain it in 40 seconds. You can't explain anything of deep philosophical viewpoint or deep theological viewpoint. It took me a year of real studying to be able to understand some of the stuff in all of different doctrines, which leads me to this. Nobody really cares. Nobody really cares. [Some of us do, Glenn. Your life depends on it.]

Look, I've said this before. You have more Jello with stupid carrots in it than you've ever -- I don't even know who came up with Jello and carrots but somehow or another the Mormons did and they're like, "Here, somebody's died, here, have some Jello and carrots." That just makes it worse for me. If you want to know, ask a Mormon. [We keep trying. But Mitt Romney, who was a missionary for his church, teaching people about his church; Mitt Romney, who was a bishop in his church and therefore, knows his doctrine refuses to teach us about his church.] If the media wants to know, why don't you call somebody who, like, actually does this for a living. [By this "logic" then, we should only ask the DNC what the Clintons believe and never do any independent investigation for ourselves.] I hear the Mormons have a university. That's weird. Maybe you should call somebody at the university and talk about their theological doctrine. [But, Glenn, maybe they will give you the party line. Or maybe they lie.] Have the theological issues taken care of by those people. But see, that's not what it's about. It's about an agenda. It's about an agenda that I'm telling you is going to backfire on the media because if Mitt Romney would get the nomination, Christians will then rally around him [he's half right. False christians will. Are have.] and say, whoa, wait a minute, hang on, this looks like it's a persecution of religion because that's exactly what it is. [Oh, poor persecuted Mormon. This is typical Mormonism. They must be true because they're "persecuted." See my post on this with Mitt Romney wearing a tin foil hat.]

If I got on the air and I said to you, I'm going to vote for Mitt Romney and I'm going to vote for Mitt Romney because he's a Mormon. Well, wouldn't you think that I'm the dumbest man in America? [Glad you said that Glenn. Because many, many of your brothers and sisters are doing exactly that. Of course, they'll deny it, just like they deny they're in a cult.] And you know what, you'd have every right to think that because if I just voted for Mitt Romney because he was a Mormon, I would also have to vote for Harry Reid, and I got news for ya. I ain't ever voting for Harry Reid. I don't care if he is Jack Mormon himself. [That's not logically consistent. If Harry Reid is a "Jack Mormon," then in the minds of Mormons, he's not really Mormon. And I've writen somewhere before that voting for a President is different than voting for a representative, like a Senator.]

The end of the matter

So, is Mitt Romney really a Christian as Mike Allen—a reporter of Politico, not a student of the Bible—says? A Mormon, Mark from Mesa, says Mormonism is proudly not part of Christianity.

Even the Mormon 'living prophet' acknowledges his jesus is not the traditional Christ.

The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak.

Rush Limbaugh says "words mean things." Anyone can claim to be a Christian. But who do you mean when you say "Jesus?" Michael the Archangel? (JW) The spirit brother of Lucifer? (Mormon) A prophet who claimed to be God but was not God and was not crucified? (Muslim)

If you don't think it makes any difference and/or if you really think Mitt Romney's values, "whatever he REALLY believes now is locked in stone," then vote a Mormon in the White House. You can make book that Mitt Romney, as President, will not be guided by the Good Book, the Bible but by an inconvenient one. (That's a joke on Glenn Beck's book, if you didn't get it.)

Christian? You are commanded to "contend earnestly for the faith." (Jude 3) Aside from the fact that Mitt Romney would make a terrible President for a bunch of secular reasons, the spiritual is what this battle is all about. Don't let someone else hijack Christianity as happened in Germany. Don't shrug off your responsibility, "that was once for all entrusted to the saints." The REAL saints.

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